Kansaibenkyou.net - Suppositional paradox http://kansaibenkyou.net/taxonomy/term/129 en かて/かって http://kansaibenkyou.net/node/314 <div class="field field-name-body field-type-text-with-summary field-label-hidden view-mode-rss"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even" property="content:encoded"> <p>The standard particle も, when used as a marker for supplements (e.g., "I'd also like an apple.") or surprise, may become かて and かって in Kansai-ben.</p> </div></div></div><section class="field field-name-field-function-type field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above view-mode-rss clearfix"> <h2 class="field-label">Common uses:&nbsp;</h2> <ul class="field-items"> <li class="field-item even"> <a href="/taxonomy/term/130" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel">Parallel marker</a> </li> <li class="field-item odd"> <a href="/taxonomy/term/129" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel">Suppositional paradox</a> </li> </ul> </section> <section class="field field-name-field-grammar-type field-type-taxonomy-term-reference field-label-above view-mode-rss clearfix"> <h2 class="field-label">Grammar elements:&nbsp;</h2> <ul class="field-items"> <li class="field-item even"> <a href="/taxonomy/term/83" typeof="skos:Concept" property="rdfs:label skos:prefLabel">かて/かって</a> </li> </ul> </section> <section class="field field-name-field-gp-kansai-v-std field-type-text-long field-label-above view-mode-rss"><h2 class="field-label">Kansai vs. Standard:&nbsp;</h2><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"> <table><tr><th>Standard</th> <td><em>__も</em></td> </tr><tr><th>Kansai-ben</th> <td><em>__かて<br /> __かって</em></td> </tr><tr></tr></table> </div></div></section><section class="field field-name-field-gp-formation field-type-text-long field-label-above view-mode-rss"><h2 class="field-label">Formation:&nbsp;</h2><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"> <h2>V<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="Abbreviation for verb. "><a href="/taxonomy/term/155" title="Abbreviation for verb. " class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup></h2> <table><tr><th>affirmative</th> <td>V (ta-form<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="The short past tense form. For example: 食べた, 行った, した, and 来た."><a href="/taxonomy/term/170" title="The short past tense form. For example: 食べた, 行った, した, and 来た." class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup>) +かて/かって</td> </tr><tr><th>negative</th> <td>V (short negative) +かて/かって</td> </tr></table> </div><div class="field-item odd"> <h2>i-Adj<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="Abbreviation for i-adjective--an adjective that ends with an い. For example: 大きい, 高い, 新しい."><a href="/taxonomy/term/179" title="Abbreviation for i-adjective--an adjective that ends with an い. For example: 大きい, 高い, 新しい." class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup></h2> <table><tr><td>i-Adj (ta-form<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="The short past tense form. For example: 食べた, 行った, した, and 来た."><a href="/taxonomy/term/170" title="The short past tense form. For example: 食べた, 行った, した, and 来た." class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup>) +かて/かって</td> </tr></table> </div><div class="field-item even"> <h2>na-Adj<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="Abbreviation for na-adjective--and adjective that ends with a な. For example: 静かな, 便利な, きれいな."><a href="/taxonomy/term/180" title="Abbreviation for na-adjective--and adjective that ends with a な. For example: 静かな, 便利な, きれいな." class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup></h2> <table><tr><td>na-Adj (stem<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="The long (masu) verb form without the final "masu". This is also known as the pre-masu form. For example: 食べ, 行き, し, and き."><a href="/taxonomy/term/168" title="The long (masu) verb form without the final &quot;masu&quot;. This is also known as the pre-masu form. For example: 食べ, 行き, し, and き." class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup>) +やった+かて/かって</td> </tr></table> </div><div class="field-item odd"> <h2>N<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="Abbreviation for noun. "><a href="/taxonomy/term/157" title="Abbreviation for noun. " class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup>.</h2> <table><tr><td>N (stem<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="The long (masu) verb form without the final "masu". This is also known as the pre-masu form. For example: 食べ, 行き, し, and き."><a href="/taxonomy/term/168" title="The long (masu) verb form without the final &quot;masu&quot;. This is also known as the pre-masu form. For example: 食べ, 行き, し, and き." class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup>) +やった+かて/かって</td> </tr><tr><td>N (stem) +かて/かって</td> </tr></table> </div></div></section><section class="field field-name-field-gp-formation-from-std field-type-text-long field-label-above view-mode-rss"><h2 class="field-label">Formation from standard:&nbsp;</h2><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"> <h2>V<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="Abbreviation for verb. "><a href="/taxonomy/term/155" title="Abbreviation for verb. " class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup></h2> <table class="full-grid-table"><tr><th></th> <th>V (affirmative) </th> <th>V (negative) </th> </tr><tr><th>Standard</th> <td>食べ<em>て</em> <em>も</em></td> <td>食べ<em>なくて</em> <em>も</em></td> </tr><tr><th>Kansai-ben</th> <td>食べ<em>た</em> <em>かて</em><br /> 食べ<em>た</em> <em>かって</em></td> <td>食べ<em>ん</em> <em>かて</em><br /> 食べ<em>ん</em> <em>かって</em></td> </tr></table> </div><div class="field-item odd"> <h2>i-Adj<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="Abbreviation for i-adjective--an adjective that ends with an い. For example: 大きい, 高い, 新しい."><a href="/taxonomy/term/179" title="Abbreviation for i-adjective--an adjective that ends with an い. For example: 大きい, 高い, 新しい." class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup></h2> <table class="full-grid-table"><tr><th></th> <th>i-Adj (affirmative)</th> <th>i-Adj (negative)</th> </tr><tr><th>Standard</th> <td>大きく<em>て</em> <em>も</em></td> <td>大きく<em>なくて</em> <em>も</em></td> </tr><tr><th>Kansai-ben</th> <td>大き<em>かった</em> <em>かて</em><br /> 大き<em>かった</em> <em>かって</em></td> <td>大き<em>なかった</em> <em>かて</em><br /> 大き<em>なかった</em> <em>かって</em></td> </tr></table> </div><div class="field-item even"> <h2>na-Adj<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="Abbreviation for na-adjective--and adjective that ends with a な. For example: 静かな, 便利な, きれいな."><a href="/taxonomy/term/180" title="Abbreviation for na-adjective--and adjective that ends with a な. For example: 静かな, 便利な, きれいな." class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup>.</h2> <table class="full-grid-table"><tr><th></th> <th>na-Adj (affirmative)</th> <th>na-Adj (negative)</th> </tr><tr><th>Standard</th> <td>しずか<em>であって</em> <em>も</em></td> <td>しずか<em>でなくて</em> <em>も</em></td> </tr><tr><th>Kansai-ben</th> <td>しずか<em>やった</em> <em>かて</em></td> <td>しずか<em>やなかった</em> <em>かて</em><br /> しずか<em>やのうた*</em> <em>かて</em> </td> </tr></table><p>*のうたかて can be old‐fashioned.</p> </div><div class="field-item odd"> <h2>N<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="Abbreviation for noun. "><a href="/taxonomy/term/157" title="Abbreviation for noun. " class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup></h2> <table class="full-grid-table"><tr><th></th> <th>N+も</th> <th>N+で(あって)も</th> </tr><tr><th>Standard</th> <td>学生 <em>も</em></td> <td>学生<em>で(あって)</em> <em>も</em></td> </tr><tr><th>Kansai-ben</th> <td>学生 <em>かて</em></td> <td>学生<em>やった</em> <em>かて</em></td> </tr></table> </div></div></section><section class="field field-name-field-gp-example field-type-text-long field-label-above view-mode-rss"><h2 class="field-label">Example:&nbsp;</h2><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"> <table><caption>V<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="Abbreviation for verb. "><a href="/taxonomy/term/155" title="Abbreviation for verb. " class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup> (affirmative) かて</caption> <tbody><tr><th>Standard</th> <td>ちょっとぐらい<em>練習しても</em>、どうせ負けるよ。</td> </tr><tr><th>Kansai-ben</th> <td>ちょっとぐらい<em>練習したかて</em>、どうせ負けるわ*。</td> </tr><tr><th>English</th> <td>It doesn't matter if we practice a little, I know that we're still gonna lose.</td> </tr></tbody></table><p>* かて can also express a speaker's resignation, anxiousness, or "so‐what" attitude.</p> </div><div class="field-item odd"> <table><caption>V<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="Abbreviation for verb. "><a href="/taxonomy/term/155" title="Abbreviation for verb. " class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup> (negative)かて</caption> <tbody><tr><th>Standard</th> <td>一日ぐらい<em>食べなくても</em>、死なないよ。</td> </tr><tr><th>Kansai-ben</th> <td>一日ぐらい食べんかて、死ねへんわ。</td> </tr><tr><th>English</th> <td>You won't die if you don't eat for a day.</td> </tr></tbody></table> </div><div class="field-item even"> <table><caption>i-Adj<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="Abbreviation for i-adjective--an adjective that ends with an い. For example: 大きい, 高い, 新しい."><a href="/taxonomy/term/179" title="Abbreviation for i-adjective--an adjective that ends with an い. For example: 大きい, 高い, 新しい." class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup> (affirmative) かて</caption> <tbody><tr><th>Standard</th> <td>いくら<em>かわいくても</em>、性格悪かったらだめだよ。</td> </tr><tr><th>Kansai-ben</th> <td>いくら<em>かわいかったかて</em>、性格悪かったらあかんで。</td> </tr><tr><th>English</th> <td>It doesn't matter how cute she it if her personality is bad.</td> </tr></tbody></table> </div><div class="field-item odd"> <table><caption>i-Adj<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="Abbreviation for i-adjective--an adjective that ends with an い. For example: 大きい, 高い, 新しい."><a href="/taxonomy/term/179" title="Abbreviation for i-adjective--an adjective that ends with an い. For example: 大きい, 高い, 新しい." class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup> (negative) かて</caption> <tbody><tr><th>Standard</th> <td><em>おいしくなくても</em>食べられたらいいじゃない。</td> </tr><tr><th>Kansai-ben</th> <td><em>おいしなかったかて</em>食べられたらええやん。</td> </tr><tr><th>English</th> <td>Even if it's not good, you should be happy you can eat at all.</td> </tr></tbody></table> </div><div class="field-item even"> <table><caption>na-Adj<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="Abbreviation for na-adjective--and adjective that ends with a な. For example: 静かな, 便利な, きれいな."><a href="/taxonomy/term/180" title="Abbreviation for na-adjective--and adjective that ends with a な. For example: 静かな, 便利な, きれいな." class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup> (affirmative) かて</caption> <tbody><tr><th>Standard</th> <td>いくら<em>しずかであったとしても</em>、こんな不便な所はちょっとね。</td> </tr><tr><th>Kansai-ben</th> <td>いくら<em>しずかやったかて</em>、こんな不便なとこはちょっとな。</td> </tr><tr><th>English</th> <td>It doesn't matter how quiet it is, the location isn't really very convenient.</td> </tr></tbody></table> </div><div class="field-item odd"> <table><caption>na-Adj<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="Abbreviation for na-adjective--and adjective that ends with a な. For example: 静かな, 便利な, きれいな."><a href="/taxonomy/term/180" title="Abbreviation for na-adjective--and adjective that ends with a な. For example: 静かな, 便利な, きれいな." class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup> (negative) かて</caption> <tbody><tr><th>Standard</th> <td><em>便利じゃなかったとしても</em>、しずかでいいところだね。</td> </tr><tr><th>Kansai-ben</th> <td><em>便利やなかったかて</em>、しずかでええとこやな。</td> </tr><tr><th>English</th> <td>Even though it's not convenient, it is really nice and quiet.</td> </tr></tbody></table> </div><div class="field-item even"> <table><caption>Nかて (parallel) </caption> <tbody><tr><th>Standard</th> <td>アメリカと<em>カナダに*も</em>住んだことあるんだ。</td> </tr><tr><th>Kansai-ben</th> <td>アメリカと<em>カナダにかて</em>住んだことあんねん。</td> </tr><tr><th>English</th> <td>I've lived in both America and Canada.</td> </tr></tbody></table><p>*Like standard Japanese, かて can be used with other particles such as に, から, で, and と.</p> </div><div class="field-item odd"> <table><caption>Nやったかて (degree)</caption> <tbody><tr><th>Standard</th> <td><em>学生で(あって)も</em>、割引ないんだよ。</td> </tr><tr><th>Kansai-ben</th> <td><em>学生やったかて</em>、割引*あらへんのや。</td> </tr><tr><th>English</th> <td>Even if you're a student, there is no discount.</td> </tr></tbody></table><p>*割引 = discount</p> </div></div></section><section class="field field-name-field-gp-commentary field-type-text-with-summary field-label-above view-mode-rss"><h2 class="field-label">Commentary:&nbsp;</h2><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item even"> <h2>Euphonic change in i-Adjecive sounds</h2> <p>Some people use the standard も instead of かて. When older people use も, <a href="/node/337">a euphonic change</a> often occur in i-adjectives.</p> <table class="full-grid-table"><tr><th></th> <th>i-Adj<sup class="lexicon-indicator" title="Abbreviation for i-adjective--an adjective that ends with an い. For example: 大きい, 高い, 新しい."><a href="/taxonomy/term/179" title="Abbreviation for i-adjective--an adjective that ends with an い. For example: 大きい, 高い, 新しい." class="lexicon-term">?</a></sup> (affirmative)</th> <th>i-Adj (negative)</th> </tr><tr><th>Standard</th> <td>大きく<em>て</em> <em>も</em></td> <td>大きく<em>なくて</em> <em>も</em></td> </tr><tr><th>Kansai-ben</th> <td>大<em>きゅうて</em> <em>も</em></td> <td>大<em>きゅうのうて</em> <em>も</em></td> </tr></table> </div><div class="field-item odd"> <h2>そやかて, そうかて, and せやかて</h2> <p>The standard conjunctions for showing disagreement (それでも and でも) may become そやかて, そうかて, or せやかて.</p> <table><tr><th>Standard</th> <td>いつまで食べているんだ。また太るよ。<br /> え〜、<em>でも</em>おいしいんだもん。やめられないよ。</td> </tr><tr><th>Kansai-ben</th> <td>いつまで食べてんねん。また太るで。<br /> え〜、<em>そやかて</em>おいしいねんもん。やめられへんわ。</td> </tr><tr><th>English</th> <td>You're still eating? You're gunna get fat.<br /> But it tastes sooo good. I can't stop.</td> </tr></table> </div></div></section> Fri, 22 Apr 2011 22:57:53 +0000 Yukawa Keiko 314 at http://kansaibenkyou.net http://kansaibenkyou.net/node/314#comments